# 01 - Collision labor hours and P-pages: what is public for a startup with no licenses

> **Superseded in part, 18 Oct 2026.** A red-team pass checked this note against primary sources and found claims that are wrong or incomplete. Do not use a claim from this note before you check it in the claims check table of: [09-redteam-cieca-secureshare.md](view.html?f=notes/09-redteam-cieca-secureshare.md), [09-redteam-parts-data.md](view.html?f=notes/09-redteam-parts-data.md), [09-redteam-reference-data.md](view.html?f=notes/09-redteam-reference-data.md).

Research date: 2026-10-17. Scope: Revv (AI estimating and supplements for US collision shops).
Method: live web reads, Wayback Machine, and the local library at `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/` (collected 2026-09-30). I did not log in, sign up, buy, or submit any form. I did not use the MOTOR sandbox credentials (use means you accept the sandbox terms).

Network note: from this machine on 2026-10-17, `help.cccis.com` returned a Cloudflare "Sorry, you have been blocked" page (HTTP 403). This is a bot or IP block, not a login wall. `static.mymitchell.com` returned HTTP 503 (Retry-After 300). Both hosts served content without login on 2026-09-30 (local mirror) and to the Wayback crawler on 2026-09-07.

## Summary table

| Data item | Public for a startup? | Latest data point with date | Source URL | Confidence | What Revv can do today |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Database labor times (R&R, R&I, O/H, refinish) as a dataset (MOTOR, Mitchell, Audatex) | No | MOTOR Developer Hub (updated 2025-08-29) lists collision OE parts kits and mechanical labor kits. It lists no collision labor kit. e-Tech Crash Estimating page live 2025-08-04, HTTP 404 by 2025-10-30 and still 404 on 2026-10-17. | https://www.motor.com/developer-hub/ | High | Do not plan on a licensed collision labor feed. Read the hours from the shop's own estimate (PDF/EMS) instead. |
| Specific database hours quoted in public | Partly (yes free, scattered) | DEG inquiries quote database hours and IP responses confirm or change them. 10 of 20 sampled Sept-2026 inquiries quote a specific hour value. Example: #41982, MOTOR changed applique refinish "to 1.6 hours from 0.8 hours" (release 10/09/2026). | https://degweb.org/inquiries/41982 ; local `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/deg/rulings-corpus/` | High | Use as precedent citations in supplements. Not a full labor table. |
| DEG inquiry database (all inquiries) | Yes free (no terms of use page) | 22,969 public inquiries, 2007-11-30 to 2026-09-29, via the public grid endpoint the DEG page itself uses. CCC 18,203 / Mitchell 2,847 / Audatex 1,919. | https://degweb.org/deg-database/ ; local `deg/deg_inquiries_metadata.json` | High (count) / Med (reuse rights) | Build a searchable precedent index. Link back to DEG. Ask DEG (AASP + SCRS) for permission before bulk republication. |
| CCC/MOTOR Guide to Estimating (P-pages), current | Yes free (HTML web help, not PDF) | Live web help pages show "Rev 11-25" and "11/3/2025". Wayback captured content pages with HTTP 200 on 2026-09-07 (OVERLAP.htm, DE_NIB_POLISH.htm). TOC has 148 topics. | https://help.cccis.com/webhelp/motor/gte/guide.htm | High | Read and cite. Store section names and short quotes. Do not republish full text. |
| CCC/MOTOR RACED guide (recycled assemblies), current | Yes free (HTML web help) | Live and non-gated on 2026-09-30 per local report. Blocked from this IP on 2026-10-17. | https://help.cccis.com/webhelp/motor/ragte/slguide.htm | Med | Same as above. |
| MOTOR GTE PDFs (2016-2022) | Archive only | motor.com PDF links return 404. 9 full PDFs plus 1 partial recovered from Wayback. Latest full: Nov 2022 (Rev 11-22). | local `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/p-pages/motor-ccc/` | High | Use for history and diffing only. Current text is in the web help. |
| Mitchell Collision Estimating Guide (P-pages) | Yes free (HTML web help) | 124 content pages mirrored 2026-09-30. Pages carry "(c) 2022 Mitchell International". Mitchell gives no change log. | https://static.mymitchell.com/static/webhelp/ppages/ceg/1033/index.htm ; local `p-pages/mitchell/webhelp-1033/` | High | Read and cite. |
| Audatex/Qapter Database Reference Manual (DBRM) | Yes free (PDF hosted by DEG) | "AE375DBRM-0425", (c) 2025 Audatex, 176 pages. URL returned HTTP 200 on 2026-10-17. | https://degweb.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/DatabaseReferenceManual-4-25.pdf ; local `p-pages/audatex/Audatex_DatabaseReferenceManual_2025-04.pdf` | High | Read and cite. Note the cover says "Internal". |
| Repair (judgment) hours guidance | No formula exists in public | All three IPs and I-CAR say repair time is estimator judgment. CCC Smart Estimate predicts repair hours with AI (2021 post), not published. | See notes Q4 | High | Revv must build its own repair-hour model (photos plus shop history). This is a real gap and a real moat. |
| Refinish formulas (clear coat, 3-stage, blend, de-nib, included/not included) | Yes free | Mitchell (live web help), Audatex DBRM Apr-2025, MOTOR GTE Rev 11-22 PDF and some Rev 11-25 pages. | See notes Q5 | High | Encode these as rules today. They are the most reusable public data in this topic. |
| Mechanical labor times (MOTOR EWT / DaaS) | Yes paid (license, no public price) | Estimated Work Times page lastmod 2025-12-05: "over 450 procedures", "7.1M+" labor times, REST via DaaS. Sandbox exists, internal evaluation only. | https://www.motor.com/products-services/data-products/estimated-work-times/ | High | Contact MOTOR sales when the mechanical tool is real. |
| Mechanical labor on consumer sites (RepairPal, YourMechanic, Openbay, AutoMD) | No (not as reusable data) | RepairPal labor times come from MOTOR (2023-01-10). AutoMD domain is parked for sale (2026-10-17). | https://www.motor.com/2023/01/repairpal-turns-to-motor-for-reliable-data-to-build-trust-transparency-with-millions-of-its-potential-customers/ | Med | Do not scrape. RepairPal hours are MOTOR licensed data. |

## Q1. Database labor times: is any of it public?

Short answer: no full dataset is public. Single values leak into public through DEG inquiries.

- MOTOR Developer Hub content kits (page lastmod 2025-08-29) list "GEN4.5 Collision OE Parts", "GEN4.5 Collision OE Parts with PCdb", "GEN5 Collision and Mechanical Ecommerce OE Parts", "GEN4.5 Mechanical Labor", "GEN5 Mechanical Labor" and others. No collision labor, crash estimating, or refinish kit is listed. No public price. No startup program. https://www.motor.com/developer-hub/
- The MOTOR sitemap (2026-10-17) has no crash or collision estimating page. Collision-related pages: none. Labor pages: only Estimated Work Times. https://www.motor.com/page-sitemap.xml
- e-Tech Crash Estimating (MOTOR's own collision estimating app, sold through Matco since 2020): Wayback shows HTTP 200 on 2025-08-04 and HTTP 404 on 2025-10-30. Live URL is 404 on 2026-10-17. Whether the product is discontinued: UNVERIFIED. Search snippet of the old page: "OEM-based labor times, parts prices, repair procedures and paint materials data ... 1984 – present" and "24M+ Annual Collision Estimates Derived Using MOTOR Data". Matco notice: https://www.motor.com/2020/08/matco-now-selling-motor-e-estimating-chek-lube/
- Old DaaS packages page lists only "Estimating" and "Quick Service" tiers. Estimating = "Real-world labor times for over 450 of the most commonly performed operations in a mechanical repair shop." "See Pricing" points to trydaas.motor.com, which does not resolve (ENOTFOUND, 2026-10-17). https://legacy-www.motor.com/?p=14641
- MOTOR position on licensing (RDN, 2024-02-09): "MOTOR responded that the estimating pages are licensed products". https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2024/02/09/cic-estimating-committee-overviews-recent-changes-to-ccc-mitchell-and-qapter/
- Audatex DBRM 2025: "All labor times included in Audatex products are the property and proprietary information of Audatex." (local PDF, front matter).
- Public labor-time lookups for collision: none found. Insurer appraisal tools: none public found. Court filings: I found labor-rate cases only, no tables of database hours. Example: Mid Island Collision v. State Farm notes "244.8 hours" on one job. https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/?p=35921 . Depth of court search: low. Mark further court sources UNVERIFIED.
- The 2022 MOTOR GTE PDF has a sample page with example hours (for example quarter outer panel 14.0). This is an illustration, not data.

## Q2. DEG inquiry database

- Count: 22,969 public inquiries, submissions 2007-11-30 to 2026-09-29, tracking numbers up to #42092 (local `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/deg/_report.md`). Status split: 14,107 Resolved (IP Change), 6,048 Resolved (No IP Change), 2,744 Resolved (DEG Response), 70 Submitted to IP. Tracking numbers run to about 42,000, so about 19,000 numbers are not public. Reason: UNVERIFIED.
- Access: the DEG Database page uses FacetWP filters (Inquiry, Platform, Status, Dates, Inquiry type, Vehicle Make, Area of Vehicle) and a keyword search. There is no export button. The page loads rows from `POST https://degweb.org/grid/get/all` (no login). The inquiry custom post type is not in the sitemap. `robots.txt` is `User-agent: * / Disallow:` (allows all).
- Grid fields (metadata JSON): post_id, db_id (tracking #), database (CCC/Mitchell/Audatex), InquiryType, VehicleData, status, SubmissionDate, ResolutionDate, ResolveTime.
- Detail page fields: Submitted date and time, Status, Year, Make, Model, Body, Tracking #, Resolution (IP response text plus release date), Inquiry type, Area of Vehicle, Issue Summary, Suggested Action. Optional: Missing Part Name, Part Name/Description, Type of Materials Involved, Number of Spot Welds, Individual Procedure Steps, Technician Skill Level, "Actual time to complete (hour)". The detail page does not show the platform. Use the grid metadata for that.
- Sample: 20 of the 120 local Sept-2026 pages (every 6th file, #42089 to #41954). 10 of 20 (50%) quote at least one specific hour value. 8 of these 10 also carry an IP or DEG resolution text. 15 of 20 had a resolution text at capture time (4 were still "Submitted to IP"). Examples:
  - #42089 (2024 Toyota Tundra, open): "Database has 16.7 hours to replace the roof skin ... Dodge Ram roof replacement is 18.0 hours, Chevy Silverado roof is 17.8".
  - #42026 (2024 GMC Canyon, No IP Change): user says "motor-book time is 8.5" for side panel inner and outer, "Actual time to complete (hour) 15". MOTOR: "the estimated work time applied to the Side Panel is appropriate."
  - #41961 (2020 GMC Sierra, No IP Change): MOTOR: "The estimated work time of 7.5 hours applied to the Cab Corner Sectioning is appropriate." and "MOTOR does not provide an itemized breakdown of the individual procedures used to develop the published labor time."
  - #41982 (2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee, IP Change): "the estimated refinish time applied to the Applique has been updated to 1.6 hours from 0.8 hours."
  - #42039 (2022 Ford F-150, Mitchell, No IP Change): user lists tailgate refinish "3.2 to 2.8", three stage "4.2 to 4.0", total "8.7 to 9.2".
  - #42033 cites earlier #36526: hood allowance "1.1-hour" increased "to 1.7 hours".
- Reuse terms: DEG has no terms-of-use page (`/terms`, `/terms-of-use`, `/terms-and-conditions` all 404 on 2026-10-17). The only notices are the footer "(c) Copyright 2026 Database Enhancement Gateway | All Rights Reserved" and a privacy notice ("Last updated January 23, 2023") that does not mention scraping. The Inquiry Process page says inquiries are "tracked and recorded on an easy to navigate public database." https://degweb.org/inquiry-process/ . Legal reading: copyright covers the compiled text. Individual hour values are facts, but the hours are also IP proprietary data. Bulk republication risk: UNVERIFIED (no legal review). Recommended: link and quote short parts; ask DEG (admin@degweb.org) before you mirror the full corpus.
- Volume context (RDN, 2025-05-22): "30% of all DEG inquiries this year have resulted in some sort of change. About 40% to 50% of all CCC inquiries resulted in a change". https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2025/05/22/deg-inquiries-have-result-in-337-labor-updates-by-information-providers-in-first-quarter

## Q3. P-pages: which are free, and where

| System | Free? | Exact URL | Latest version seen |
|---|---|---|---|
| CCC/MOTOR GTE (new parts) | Yes, HTML | https://help.cccis.com/webhelp/motor/gte/guide.htm (content under `/webhelp/motor/gte/Content/<TOPIC>.htm`) | "Rev 11-25", "11/3/2025", captured 2026-09-07 |
| CCC/MOTOR RACED (recycled) | Yes, HTML | https://help.cccis.com/webhelp/motor/ragte/slguide.htm | Live 2026-09-30 (local report) |
| MOTOR GTE PDF | No longer from MOTOR | was https://www.motor.com/wp-content/uploads/CED-GTE_202211_Nov-compressed2.pdf (404) | Rev 11-22, local Wayback copy |
| Mitchell CEG | Yes, HTML | https://static.mymitchell.com/static/webhelp/ppages/ceg/1033/index.htm | Page footers "(c) 2022", mirrored 2026-09-30 |
| Audatex/Qapter DBRM | Yes, PDF via DEG | https://degweb.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/DatabaseReferenceManual-4-25.pdf | AE375DBRM-0425 (April 2025) |
| DEG hubs ("know your system") | Yes | https://degweb.org/industry-estimating-systems/ , https://degweb.org/ccc-motor-pathways/ , https://degweb.org/mitchell/ , https://degweb.org/audatex/ | Live 2026-10-17 |

- The claim "MOTOR stopped giving out its guide PDF around 2024" is TRUE for the PDF, but the guide is still free as HTML through CCC. RDN 2024-02-09: "MOTOR has historically provided a PDF version of the Guide to Estimating (GTE)," but "new in 2024 the PDF version will no longer be available from MOTOR directly." Gredinberg: "It's best to use a live version through the CCC platform or through the links that we shared with you." The motor.com PDF URLs now return 404 (local report, 2026-09-30).
- Latest status: CCC web help shows "Rev 11-25" on topic pages captured 2026-09-07 with HTTP 200. Content example (OVERLAP.htm): "When a labor overlap condition exists, less time is required to replace adjoining components collectively than is required when they are replaced individually." Wayback: https://web.archive.org/web/20260907211421/https://help.cccis.com/webhelp/motor/gte/Content/OVERLAP.htm
- There is no DEG page titled "Know your estimating system". The equivalent pages are the "Industry Estimating Systems" hub and the three system pages above. Key system logic, verbatim:
  - CCC: "CCC ONE labor is built from the 'outside in'". https://degweb.org/ccc-motor-pathways/
  - Mitchell: "The Mitchell system builds labor similar to CCC, from the 'outside in'." https://degweb.org/mitchell/
  - Audatex: "Audatex builds and displays database labor significantly differently than the approach of CCC/Motor and Mitchell, using an 'inside out' approach instead." and "Audatex does not make use of database generated labor notes." https://degweb.org/audatex/
- Copyright: Mitchell pages say "(c) 2022 Mitchell International Inc. All Rights Reserved." Audatex DBRM is "(c)2025 Audatex North America, LLC" and marked "Internal". Free to read does not mean free to republish.

## Q4. Repair (judgment) hours

No public formula or chart exists from any IP, I-CAR, or SCRS. All sources push repair time to estimator judgment.

- Mitchell: "Any additional time needed for collision DAMAGE ACCESS, ALIGNMENT PULLS, NON-ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT or USED PARTS should be agreed upon by all parties." (local `p-pages/mitchell/webhelp-1033/009-labor-general-information.htm`)
- MOTOR (Rev 11-22): "For damaged panel(s), published refinish times may be applied after the damaged panel has been returned to a NEW UNDAMAGED condition." 31 uses of "on-the-spot evaluation" in the guide. (local `CED-GTE-202211_Nov-compressed2.pdf`)
- Audatex DBRM 2025: "When a repaired panel is being refinished, the estimator provides time for the repair of the panel. The estimator also determines included operations." It lists repair-refinish steps to consider: "feather edge, blow off and clean, mask to prime, ... and block sand."
- I-CAR (via search excerpt of Ask I-CAR): I-CAR "does not, and will not, make specific recommendations about how much time should be allotted to a repair". Source: https://rts.i-car.com/12771.html . Exact wording: Med confidence (from search summary, not a direct page read).
- AI vendors: CCC (2021-01-28): "Based on CCC AI models, Smart Estimate can now populate estimates with labor hour predictions for repair operations." and "Repair labor hour predictions are configured to carrier-specific rules — including state-level configurations". https://www.cccis.com/news-and-insights/posts/ai-enhancements-bring-further-efficiency-to-apd-estimation . Mitchell Intelligent Estimating (launched 2020-03): no published repair-hour logic found. Tractable: no published repair-hour logic found. CCC "Repair Methodology": not checked in depth, UNVERIFIED.
- PDR has public size-based charts from PDR vendors (for example https://incidentspdr.com/downloads/PDR_Procedure_Pages.pdf). These are for PDR, not conventional repair. Not verified in depth.

## Q5. Refinish formulas (publicly documented)

| Item | MOTOR/CCC (GTE Rev 11-22 PDF) | Mitchell (live CEG) | Audatex (DBRM Apr-2025) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Clear coat (2-stage) | First major panel add 40%. Each additional panel add 20%. Maximum 2.5 hours. | First major panel ".4 per refinish hour (40%)". Additional ".2 per refinish hour (20%)". About 2.5 hours limit for new undamaged parts. | 0.6 hour setup plus 20% of Audatex refinish labor. 2.5-hour threshold on rigid exterior panels. |
| 3-stage | First major panel add 70%. Each additional add 40%. | First ".7 per refinish hour (70%)". Additional ".4 per refinish hour (40%)". | 1.0 hour setup plus 35%. 4-stage is treated as 3-stage. |
| Blend (2-stage) | 50% of blend panel base refinish time (undamaged panel). No overlap deduction. | ".5 per refinish hour (50%)". The software puts 20% of it on the clear coat line. | Default 50%. Profile can set 50% to 150%. DBRM says it "does not provide a standard labor allowance for blended panels". |
| Blend (3-stage) | 70% of blend panel base refinish time. | ".7 per refinish hour (70%)". 40% of it goes to the 3-stage line. | Same profile percentage. |
| Clear coat undamaged panel | 40% of panel base refinish time. | Separate "Extend clear to adjacent panel(s)" page (not quoted here). | "Continuous Clear" is user judgment. |
| Two-tone | Page exists (TwoToneRefinishing). Values not quoted here. | Page exists. | 0.4 hour setup plus 30% per panel. |
| De-nib and polish | Current web help (Rev 11-25): hood, roof, trunk lid, spoiler "First panel add up to 20% of full base refinish time, each additional panel add up to10%". Fender, door, quarter, bumper "First panel add up to 10% ... each additional panel add up to 5%". | "De-Nib/Finesse" page exists. | "Nib Sanding/De-nib" section exists. |
| Overlap | Adjacent: deduct 0.4 per part (base 1.0 hour or more), 0.2 per part (less than 1.0). Inner: deduct 0.2 (base 0.5 hour or more). | "Overlap" page exists. | Overlap is automatic. Labor Report shows breakdown. |
| Chipguard | Page exists. | Not checked. | 0.3 first panel, 0.2 each additional. |
| Bagging (vehicle cover) | "Add 0.2 each time a cover is applied and removed". | "Mask Vehicle to Prevent Overspray" page exists. | Not checked. |

- Included / not included lists: MOTOR GTE and Mitchell CEG list them per operation. Audatex lists refinish "Included" and "Not Included" in Section 4-5. All local.
- Caution on currency: the MOTOR percentages above come from the Rev 11-22 PDF. The Rev 11-25 clear coat and blend formula pages were not archived, so the 2025 values are UNVERIFIED. RDN (2024-02-09) reports Qapter "removed its previous 50% blend formula" in favour of estimator judgment. The April 2025 DBRM still uses 50% as the default when no profile value is set.
- Industry challenge: SCRS blend study (RDN, 2022-11-09): "blending a panel takes 31.59% more time than a full refinish of the same panel," against the 50% reduction in the three systems. https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2022/11/09/scrs-engages-with-ips-over-blend-study-findings/

## Q6. Mechanical labor times

- MOTOR Estimated Work Times: "over 450 procedures", "7.1M+" labor times, delivered "via MOTOR Data as a Service (DaaS)". "MOTOR offers custom licensing and delivery options". No public price. No trial. Page lastmod 2025-12-05. Data sheet: https://www.motor.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/MOTOR_EstimatedWorkTimes.pdf (HTTP 200, 2026-10-17).
- MOTOR DaaS sandbox: exists, terms say "access and use Test Materials solely for internal evaluation purposes", "a limited static set of data, which may not be current", and "May not be republished in any format of any media." https://www.motor.com/daas-sandbox-terms-conditions/
- RepairPal: uses MOTOR data "on Parts, Labor Times, Fluid Capacities/Type, VIN and Maintenance Schedules" (MOTOR, 2023-01-10). Its pages show price ranges. Whether hours show on public pages: UNVERIFIED. RepairPal terms and robots.txt returned HTTP 403 to this machine. Terms text: UNVERIFIED.
- YourMechanic: terms page renders by JavaScript. Terms text: UNVERIFIED. robots.txt disallows `/api/`, `/api1/`, `/v1/` and has a honeypot ("Disallow: /scrpot.html # Honeypot to catch bad crawlers").
- Openbay: terms page returned HTTP 403. UNVERIFIED.
- AutoMD: automd.com redirects to a GoDaddy for-sale page (2026-10-17). The site is no longer live.
- No free, licensed, public mechanical labor dataset or API was found. Many "free labor time guide PDF" results are spam domains. Do not download them.

## What this changes for Revv

1. Assumed private, but public: the current CCC/MOTOR P-pages (Rev 11-25) are free HTML on help.cccis.com. Only the PDF stopped. Mitchell P-pages and the 2025 Audatex DBRM are also free.
2. Assumed private, but partly public: specific database hours. The DEG corpus (22,969 inquiries) quotes hours and IP confirmations in about half of recent inquiries.
3. Assumed available, but not: MOTOR DaaS does not offer collision labor. The only labor kits are mechanical. MOTOR's own collision product page (e-Tech Crash Estimating) is gone since late 2025.
4. Repair hours have no public formula anywhere. Revv must learn them from estimates and photos.
5. Refinish math is fully public for all three systems. Encode it now and use it to check estimates for missed clear coat, blend, 3-stage and de-nib lines.

## Local files used

- `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/_README.md`
- `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/p-pages/motor-ccc/_report.md` and `CED-GTE-202211_Nov-compressed2.pdf`
- `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/p-pages/mitchell/webhelp-1033/` (009, 106, 107, 109, 110, 111)
- `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/p-pages/audatex/Audatex_DatabaseReferenceManual_2025-04.pdf`
- `~/insure-tech-research/downloads/deg/_report.md`, `deg_inquiries_metadata.json`, `rulings-corpus/deg_inquiry_0003.htm` to `deg_inquiry_0117.htm` (every 6th)
- `~/market-research/outreach/collision-shops/research/competitive-landscape/evidence/search/deg.json`